Skriv aldrig på

[Mikko]

Känner en lite äldre herre som varit gift i 7år och hunnit med att skaffa hus , bilar , traktor mc,n mm
Hela hans egna bohag från Sverige togs hit och allt var frid och fröjd .
Sista året så började det knaka mer i förhållandet och dom beslutade sig för att skiljas .
Men då dom var uppe i Amphur för att skriva under skiljsmässo papprena så fanns ett annat papper inblandat som alla var på Thai så klart . Utan att veta allt han skrev under med komunens vittnen så fanns ett papper som han gav bort allt till sin fru . Hus , bilar , traktorn och motor cyklarna .
Något som hon förmodligen redan innan hade ordnat med eller ??
Efter att ha kontaktat en advokat och kontrollerat så fick han det svaret att detta skulle vara svårt att bevisa och han hade ju skrivit på så. Det skulle vara svårt att få det ändrat till hans fördel men han kunde försöka om han ville föra detta vidare.

Någon som känner till fall som gått vidare eller ?
Vet någon om sådana här skiljsmässo papper måste fastslås av dom stol innan den vinner laga kraft ?

Skulle aldrig skriva på ett enaste papper själv utan att det var översatt till engelska av en godkänd översättare . Det tar bara ett par dagar längre tid

mikko

[stgrhe]

Ett sådant papper är helt ogiltigt om det utfärdats under äktenskapet eftersom man i Thailand inte kan ge gåvor inom äktenskapets ramar. Personen ifråga bör anlita en egen jurist specialicerad på familjerätt.

Allt som införskaffas till hemmet inom äktenskapet, förutom pesonliga tillhörigheter som t.ex. kläder, är att betrakta som “Sin Somros” och således gemensam egendom. Notera att detta även gäller mark, som ju utlänningar visserligen inte kan äga men väl värdet av halva marken.

Allt som ägdes av var och en innan äktenskapet är enskild egendom, dvs. “Sin Suan Tua”. Enskild egendom är även arvegods som föreskrivits som enskild egendom.

Det som sagts ovan gäller självklart om det är fråga om ett äktenskap som vederbörligen registrerats i Thailand. Sedan finns det fall där reglerna är satta ur spel genom ett äktenskapsförord men i Thailand skall ett sådan registreras samtidigt med äktenskapets registrering för att vara giltigt.

Göran

Den engelska översättningen av lagtexten lyder:

CHAPTER IV (THE CIVIL AND COMMERCIAL CODE)

PROPERTY OF HUSBAND AND WIFE

Section 1465. Where the husband and wife have not, previous to their marriage, concluded a special agreement concerning their properties, the relations between them as regards to their properties shall be governed by the provisions of this Chapter.

Any clause in the anti-nuptial (also called prenuptial) agreement contrary to public order or good morals, or provided that the relations between them as regards such properties are to be governed by foreign law shall be void.

Section 1466. The ante-nuptial agreement is void if not entered in the Marriage Register at the time of marriage registration terms of the ante-nuptial; or if not made in writing and signed by both spouses and by at least two witnesses and entered in the Marriage Register at the time of marriage registration stating that the ante-nuptial is thereto annexed.

Section 1467. After marriage the ante-nuptial agreement cannot be altered except by authorization of the Court.

When there is final order of the Court to effect the alteration of cancellation of the ante-nuptial agreement, the Court shall notify the Marriage Registrar of the matter in order to have it entered in the Marriage Register.

Section 1468. Clauses in the ante-prenuptial agreement shall have no effect as regards the rights of third persons acting in good faith irrespective of whether they be altered or cancelled by the order of the Court.

Section 1469. Any agreement concluded between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided by either of them at any time during marriage or within one year from the day of dissolution of marriage; provided that the right of third persons acting in good faith are not affected thereby.

Section 1470. Properties of husband and wife except in so far as they are set aside as Sin Suan Tua, are Sin Somros.

Section 1471. Sin Suan Tua consists of:

(1) property belonging to either spouse before marriage

(2) property for personal use, dress or ornament suitable for station in life, or tools necessary for carrying on the profession of either spouse

(3) property acquired by either spouse during marriage through a will or gift

(4) Khongman.

Section 1472. As regards to Sin Suan Tua, if it has been exchanged to other property, other property has been bought or money has been acquired from selling it, such other property or money acquired shall be Sin Suan Tua.

Where the Sin Suan Tua has been totally or partly destroyed but replaced by other property or the money, such other property shall be Sin Suan Tua.

Section 1473. Each spouse is manager of his or her Sin Suan Tua.

Section 1474. Sin Somros consists of:
(1) property acquired during marriage;
(2) property acquired by either spouse during marriage through a will of gift made in writing if it is declared by such will or document of gift to be Sin Somros;
(3) fruits of Sin Suan Tua.

In case of doubt as to whether a property in Sin Somros or not shall be presumed to be Sin Somros.

Section 1475. Where any Sin Somros is property of the kind mentioned in Section 456 of this Code or has documentary title, either husband or wife may apply for having his or her name entered in the documents as co-owners.

Section 1476. In managing the Sin Somros in the following cases, the husband and wife have to be joint manager, or one spouse has to obtain consent from the other:
(1) Selling, exchanging, sale with the right of redemption, letting out property on hire-purchase, mortgaging, releasing mortgage to mortgagor or transferring the right of mortgage on immovable property or on mortgageable movable property.
(2) Creating or distinguishing the whole or a part of the servitude, right of inhabitation, right of superficies, usufruct or charge on immovable property.
(3) Letting immovable property for more than three years.
(4) Lending money
(5) Making a gift unless it is a gift for charitable, social or moral purposes and is auitable to the family condition.
(6) Making a compromise.
(7) Submitting a dispute to arbitration.
(8) Putting up the property as guarantee or security with a competent official or the Court.

The management of the Sin Somros in any case other than those provided in paragraph one can be made only by one spouse without having to obtain consent from the other.

Section 1476/1. The husband and wife can manage the Sin Somros, differently, in whole or in part, from provisions of Section 1476, provided that the ante-nuptial agreement under Section 1465 and Section 1466 has been made. In such case, the management of the Sin Somros shall be made in accordance with the ante-nuptial agreement.

In case the specifications of the management of the Sin Somros in he ante-nuptial agreement are only part in difference to the provisions of Section 1476, the management of the Sin Somros other than those specified in the ante-nuptial contract shall be made in accordance with Section 1476.

Section 1477. Either spouse is entitled to litigate, defend, take legal proceedings concerning maintenance of the Sin Somros or for the benefit of the Sin Somros. Debts incurred by the said litigation, defense and legal proceedings shall be regarded as the obligation to be performed jointly by the spouses.

Section 1478. Where one spouse has to give consent or to affix a signature together with the other in the management of the property, but unreasonably refuses to give such consent or to affix such signature, or is not in a position to give such consent, the latter may apply to the Court for an order granting the necessary permission.

Section 1479. Where an act by either spouse requires the consent of the other spouse, and if such act is required by law to be made in writing or registered by the competent official, such consent must be given in writing.

Section 1480. In the management of the Sin Somros which has to be made jointly or has to obtain the consent from the other spouse under Section 1476, if either spouse has entered into any juristic act alone or without consent of the other, the latter may apply in Court for revoking such juristic act , unless it has been ratified by the other spouse, or the third person was at the time of entering into such juristic act, acting in good faith and make the counter-payment.

The litigation for revocation of the juristic act by the Court under paragraph one cannot be made later than one year from the day when such cause as being the ground for the revocation is known, or later than ten years since the juristic act was done.

Section 1481. Neither spouse is entitled to dispose of the Sin Somros by will in favour of the other persons to an extent exceeding his or her own portion thereof.

Section 1482. In case either spouse is the sole manager of the Sin Somros, the other spouse is nevertheless entitled to manage household affairs or provide for the necessaries of the family, and the expenses therefore would bind the Sin Somros and Sin Suan Tua of both parties.

If such management of household affairs or provision for the necessaries of the family by the husband or wife results in the undue loss, the other spouse may apply to the Court to forbid or limit his or her power.

Section 1483. In case either spouse is the sole manager of the Sin Somros, if the manager is going to commit or is committing any act in the management of the Sin Somros which would appear to result in undue loss, the other spouse may apply to the Court for an order forbidding commission of such act.

Section 1484. If either spouse who is the manager of Sin Somros:
(1) causes undue loss to it;
(2) fails to support the other spouse;
(3) becomes insolvent or incurs debts to an amount exceeding one half of the Sin Somros;
(4) hinders the management of Sin Somros by the other spouse without reasonable ground;
(5) is found to have circumstances that will ruin the Sin Somros;

the other spouse may apply to the Court for an order authorizing him or her to be the sole manager or dividing the Sin Somros.

In case there is an application is made under paragraph one, the Court may determine temporary protective measures in the management of the Sin Somros. If that is the case of emergency, the provisions on the request in case of emergency under the Civil Procedure Code shall apply.

Section 1484/1. In case where has been an order of the Court forbidding or limiting the power of either spouse to manage the Sin Somros, if the cause which was the ground for the Court order or the circumstances have later changed, either spouse may apply to the Court revocation or change of the order forbidding or limiting the power to manage the Sin Somros. The Court in this effect may give any order which is deemed suitable.

Section 1485. The husband or wife may apply to the Court for authorizing him or her to be the manager of any particular Sin Somros or participate in the management, if such management or participation will bring about more benefit.

Section 1486. When the Court has pronounced a final judgment or given an order under Section 1482 paragraph two, Section 1483, Section 1484, Section 1484/1 or Section 1485 in favour of the applicant, or Section 1491, Section 1492/2 or Section 1598/17, or the husband and wife has been relieved of becoming bankrupt, the Court shall notify the marriage Registrar of the matter in order to have it entered in the Marriage Regsitrar.

Section 1487. No spouse can seize attach any property of the other during the marriage, except the seizure or attachment made in the case which has entered for the purpose of exercising his or her duty or for maintaining rights between husband and wife as specially provided in this Code or as specially provided by this Code allowing one spouse to sue the other, or for allowance due for maintenance and cost under the judgment of the Court.

Section 1488. Where either spouse is personally liable to perform an obligation incurred before or during marriage, such performance shall be first made out of his or her Sin Suan Tua; if the obligation is not performed in full, it shall be satisfied out of his or her portion of the Sin Somros.

Section 1489. Where both spouses are common debtors, the performance shall be made out of the Sin Somros and the Sin Suan Tua of both spouses.

Section 1490. Debts that both spouses are jointly liable to perform, shall include the following debts incurred by either spouse during marriage:
(1) debts incurred in connection with management of household affairs and providing for the necessaries of the family, or maintenance, medical expenses of the household and for proper education of the children;
(2) debts incurred in connection with the Sin Somros;
(3) debts incurred in connection with a business carried on by the spouses in common;
(4) debts incurred by either spouse only for his or her own benefit but ratified by the other.

Section 1491. If either spouse is adjudged bankrupt, the Sin Somros is divided by operation of law as from the date of adjudication.

Section 1492. After the Sin Somros has been divided under Section 1484 paragraph two, Section 1491 or Section 1598/17 paragraph two, the portion so divided becomes Sin Suan Tua of each spouse. Any property obtained after the division by either spouse shall be Sin Suan Tua of that spouse and not be regarded as Sin Somros. And the property acquired thereafter by the spouse through a will or gift made in writing under Section 1474 (2) shall become Sin Suan Tua of the husband and wife equally.

Fruits of the Sin Suan Tua accrued after the division of the Sin Somros shall be Sin Suan Tua.

Section 1492/1. In case the division of the Sin Somros is made by the order of the Court, the revocation of the division shall be made upon the request of either spouse and the Court has given the order to that effect. If either spouse raises an objection to such request, the Court cannot give an order for the revocation of the division of the Sin Somros unless the cause for division of the Sin Somros has ceased to exist.

After the division of the Sin Somros under paragraph one having been revoked, or suspended due to the husband or wife having been relieved from being bankrupt, the property which is the Sin Suan Tua on the date of the order of the Court, or on the date of his or her relieving from being bankrupt shall remain the same as Sin Suan Tua.

Section 1493. In case where the Sin Somros has been disposed of, both spouses are liable to pay for the household expenses in proportion to the amount of their respection Sin Suan Tua.

[Mikko]

Tack för det Göran . Ska genast ringa honom om detta .
Vet du om den dära 2 års regeln gäller att han måste göra något inom 2 år efter skiljsmässan då hon redan sålt allt bohag (även hans) + bilarna o allt . Huset har stått tomt i 6 månader men nu har hon flyttat in igen fast hon innan sålt bort to.m pumpar o vatten tankar.
2års regeln kallar jag det då jag läst någonstans att inom 2 år efter skiljsmässan inte kan kräva något av den andra partnern eller delade bohaget.
Skiljsmässo papprena är skrivna för ca 1 år sen

Mikko

[stgrhe]

Tvåårsregeln är en svensk företeelse och jag känner inte till om det finns en motsvarande här i Thailand. Däremot finns den berömda paragrafen 1469 som lyder:

“Section 1469. Any agreement concluded between husband and wife during marriage may be avoided by either of them at any time during marriage or within one year from the day of dissolution of marriage; provided that the right of third persons acting in good faith are not affected thereby.”

Den säger att alla överenskommelser mellan makar och som ingått under äktenskapet, må sägas upp inom ett år efter det att äktenskapsskillnad inträtt. Notera dock att det inte är detsamma som att en sådan överenskommelse per automatik upphör om ingen av parterna sagt upp den.

Det är viktigt för oss som är lagligt gifta med en thailändare och som är bosatta i Thailand, att ha kännedom om den här paragrafen.

Göran

[Thaisambo]

Section 1469 är av intresse och den finns något som kan uppfattas som en spegling i svensk lag nämligen Lag (1904:26 s.1) om vissa internationella rättsförhållanden rörande äktenskap och förmynderskap 1 kap. Om äktenskapets ingående 8 a §, som lyder så här:

“8 a § Ett äktenskap som har ingåtts enligt utländsk lag erkänns inte i Sverige

1. om det vid tidpunkten för äktenskapets ingående skulle ha funnits hinder mot det enligt svensk lag och minst en av parterna då var svensk medborgare eller hade hemvist i Sverige,
2. om det är sannolikt att det har ingåtts under tvång, eller
3. om parterna inte var närvarande samtidigt vid äktenskapets ingående och minst en av dem då var svensk medborgare eller hade hemvist i Sverige.
Första stycket gäller inte om det finns synnerliga skäl att erkänna äktenskapet. Lag (2014:379).”

Märk särskilt punkt 2. som handlar om ingående under tvång, dvs parterna är inte överens, och det är ju precis vad Section 1469 också handlar om, t o m “synnerliga skäl” speglas i Section 1469: “… provided that the right of third persons acting in good faith are not affected thereby“, vilket är en del som Göran inte kommenterar.

Det här är viktigt i svensk/thailändska blandförhållanden eftersom det visar på likheter i thailändsk och svensk rättskultur som underlättar förståelse och samsyn. Uttrycken är olika, men grundbudskapen är i stora drag lika.

Har det hänt något vidare i detta fall?

[Tuktuk]

Vet du nån falang som fått rätt, sin tanke rätt mot en Thaidam, tror och med rätta att thaiarna håller ihop som vi svenskar gör också. Har man inte alla tankar och papper som gäller i Thai så kan man bara tacka för sej och förmodligen har man haft ett bra liv tills det sprack. Tänk på dom åren

[Author]

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